new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

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new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 01 Juil 2011, 02:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fipIqeqVjlY&hd=1

And see some footage from our GDC 2011 booth here: http://dualityzf.com/

Let me know what you think!
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar sisi » 01 Juil 2011, 09:16

It seems very nice, I love the explosions! (not recommended to epileptic people :)) )
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Cormano » 01 Juil 2011, 09:30

Looks real cool, can't wait to play it. The weapons have a personality of their own - gotta love the multiple nods too (the green weapon reminiscent of Bakraid, the spinny Shikigami-esque thingy...).

Some weapons look like they have a fixed forward shot - any chance you might offer a mode with "traditional" gameplay as opposed to dual stick? Not that I have anything against dual personally, but I know some people do... Plus, it would be cool to play it with a joystick for a change.

BTW, did you find a fix for the audio issue in Decimation X / Score Rush? Will it be repro on Duality ZF?
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Doudinou » 01 Juil 2011, 10:02

désolé mais moi je vais parler en francais.
ca a l'air vachement bien!
les backgrounds sont inexistants mais il y a l'air d'avoir tellement de boulettes et d'ennemis que ce n'est pas si grave.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 01 Juil 2011, 13:24

We haven't heard of Bakraid, do you have any videos to show us?

Duality ZF isn't a dual-stick shooter, only the "dual play" mode uses two sticks, where you control two fighters at once.

And the audio issue (that was) in our other games was in Duality ZF too, but we have fixed it. We never released our fix for Score Rush and Decimation X3 though. It's from us playing too many sounds at once, something that only happens in our games as most other XBLIG games are not as intense. The audio processor could not handle the load and would do micro-clips of no sounds, which it turn would be messed up only if you had an audio receiver that would try to be smart and reset and analyze the "new" sound after the micro-clip before playing it. This so-called "smart" analysis is what messes it up, which is why normal TVs and receivers do not mess up, and neither do "smarter" receivers.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 01 Juil 2011, 13:29

doudinou a écrit:désolé mais moi je vais parler en francais.
ca a l'air vachement bien!
les backgrounds sont inexistants mais il y a l'air d'avoir tellement de boulettes et d'ennemis que ce n'est pas si grave.


We will make the backgrounds better! :)
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Arsene » 01 Juil 2011, 14:43

hi !

This trailer looks really tasty and picked my attention !
a quick question about controls buttons - since a lot of people are playing with
arcade-stick- will it be possible to re-assign them ?

keep the good work !
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 01 Juil 2011, 17:16

Right now we have not remappable buttons. What would you want to remap? Consider dual play is dual-stick.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Guigui » 04 Juil 2011, 13:53

Matthew Doucette a écrit:Right now we have not remappable buttons. What would you want to remap? Consider dual play is dual-stick.


I always want to remap every buttons, even the directionnal ones. Keep in mind that most players will use big sticks to play Duality and that those sticks sometimes have weird buttons layout compared to the traditionnal X360 Pad.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 04 Juil 2011, 15:17

But, which buttons? Our game has simple controls. Move and shoot (and soon, bomb on the trigger). I'm not sure if remapping is needed. Plus, how do you remap for dual play where both thumbsticks are used?
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Palgork » 05 Juil 2011, 13:11

I think remappable buttons are important.

Let me take an example for dual play :

Take a player who want to play with is XBOX pad :
He probably want to use the 2 thumbstick of the pad (one for each ship) but has several possibilities for buttons setup :

Some players will want to use LB/RB for shot, other players will prefer to use LT/RT.
For bombs, you can use LB/RB or LT/RT (those not used for shot) or L3/R3 (the fact of pressing the left/right thumbsticks, I don't know what is the XBOX name for this command -L3/R3 are the Sony's name-)


Now take a player who want to play this mode with 2 arcade stick :

1/ instead of controlling 2 ship with 1 pad you need to have the possibility to split control of the 2 ship between 2 controller.

2/ You have to play one-handed on each stick. If you take the SF 4 TE stick for example, it's very difficult to reach LT/LB/RT/RB because these button are too far from the stick : I think the most common setup will be using X for shot because it's the closest button to the stick and A or Y for bombs.

If you take a "normal mode" (in opposition to dual mode), I probably won't use triggers with a pad and bomb/shot button on an arcade stick will be different from one player to another depending to their feeling about the space between their hands.

So players will want to remap button depending on the type of controller, the mode used and some preference specific to each player.

For the game itself, it seem to be cool but there is so many color for enemies shots, don't you think it can make pattern analysis difficult ?

Sorry if my english is poor, it's not my usual language :))
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 05 Juil 2011, 15:12

We have decided to not let anyone use more than one controller for dual play, as you could cheat with having a friend play your second fighter much too easily. So with dual play already out of question for the arcade stick, what else really needs to be remapped? We have A for shoot (all buttons for shoot I think), and then triggers for bombs. I think everyone can work with this.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 05 Juil 2011, 15:13

Also, not that it matters, but in dual play, we have auto-fire (no buttons needed to be pressed).
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 05 Juil 2011, 15:14

And we are considering removing a lot of the multi-colored bullets and pulsing nature of them! So we agree here! Thanks so much for all your feedback!
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Ryusenshi » 06 Juil 2011, 01:02

Matthew Doucette a écrit:So with dual play already out of question for the arcade stick, what else really needs to be remapped? We have A for shoot (all buttons for shoot I think), and then triggers for bombs. I think everyone can work with this.

You never know, there are always people with weird preferences. For example, lots of people prefer to use A for shooting and X for bombs (XBox layout).

Unless it is too costly or difficult to implement, I think it is a good idea to always include a remapping screen. Especially since the button layout varies from one joystick model to another. And that goes double for PC games: you can't even rely on gamepads, as there are countless models, each with a different button layout.

Oh, and by the way, if you decide to implement a remapping screen in the end (for this game, or for another one), please, please do it the right way.

- The wrong way: a listing of buttons, and you have to scroll through the functions for each of them.
- Slightly less wrong but still wrong: a listing of functions, and you have to scroll through the buttons.
- The right way: a listing of functions, and you have to press the button you want to use for each one.

I doubt it's much harder to do, and it saves a lot of time and trouble for the player. I just can't understand how developers make the same mistake again and again... Sorry if I'm off topic, but this is really a pet peeve of mine.

To end on a more positive note, this looks promising. I should keep an eye on it.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 06 Juil 2011, 02:16

The reason this doesn't get implemented is because it is more complicated than it seems. Do you store it per game or per profile? It complicates testing, costs more to create and test, increases chances of bugs, of failing. It's very simple when ABXY always shoots, trigger always bombs, and bumper always slows down the fighter (forgot about that one). Is there really any need to remap such mechanics? I know it's best if it is possible, but in the end it's not necessary. And at what position is this task in our list of priorities? Currently, if it exists, it's in the "if time" section, which time is one luxury we don't have. :( That's just the nature of the game. We have a hundred such little things to add, and if it's not game-breaking, then they are put as low priority.

What button do Cave shooters usually use for their slowdown move? It reminds me we should consider adapting to their style if they've popularized it.

My pet peeve is using bumpers instead of triggers especially when triggers do nothing, when at least both bumpers and triggers should be used, something very easy to do.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar kolibri » 06 Juil 2011, 03:33

A bit late, but... that looks awesome ! :eek: I really look forward to playing it !

Good work guys ! :))
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Palgork » 06 Juil 2011, 09:04

In CAVE's game, slowdown move is usually linked to laser : you have normal shot (with normal move) by taping the shot button and laser (with slowdown move) by holding it.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 06 Juil 2011, 11:25

I know about the slowdown being linked to a laser, so usually they use a face button for this, where we are using a bumper. I am questioning if we should change this anyway.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Ryusenshi » 06 Juil 2011, 12:29

Matthew Doucette a écrit:The reason this doesn't get implemented is because it is more complicated than it seems. Do you store it per game or per profile? It complicates testing, costs more to create and test, increases chances of bugs, of failing. It's very simple when ABXY always shoots, trigger always bombs, and bumper always slows down the fighter (forgot about that one). Is there really any need to remap such mechanics? I know it's best if it is possible, but in the end it's not necessary. And at what position is this task in our list of priorities? Currently, if it exists, it's in the "if time" section, which time is one luxury we don't have. :( That's just the nature of the game. We have a hundred such little things to add, and if it's not game-breaking, then they are put as low priority.

Oh, OK. As I said, if you don't have the time and/or money to make a remap screen, well, too bad. "We can't afford to do so" is a good reason. "We don't see the need" isn't. ;)

Matthew Doucette a écrit:What button do Cave shooters usually use for their slowdown move? It reminds me we should consider adapting to their style if they've popularized it.

Cave games are made for arcades first. In their console ports, buttons can be remapped anyway, especially since many of Cave players use arcade sticks (with inconsistent button layouts). So I'm not sure if they really have a convention regarding face buttons versus bumpers and triggers.

As Palgork said, slowdown is linked to the shot button. Even if there is no laser, the important thing is: tapping the fire button for normal speed, holding it for slowdown.
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Re: new Duality ZF trailer (June 2011)

Messagepar Matthew Doucette » 06 Juil 2011, 12:36

We do auto-fire so there's no need to tap... and we've done the slowdown with the bumper in Decimation X3, so I think we'll keep it the same. Try it if you wish (free trial):

http://marketplace.xbox.com/Product/Dec ... 0258550717
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